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#29110 - 09/27/05 10:04 AM The Truth Will Out
johnmr Offline
curious

Registered: 11/18/01
Posts: 38
Loc: England, close to Hedingham Ca...
Well, folks, this is what you have all been waiting for - the final unmasking of the True Bard. The book by "Brenda James with Professor W. D. Rubinstein" will be launched from The Globe on October 19th. Here is the cover text.

The Truth Will Out

Unmasking the Real Shakespeare

"remarkable, intriguing, and provocative . . . It may prove to be a landmark book of genuine world-wide importance" Professor John Spiers, University of Glamorgan

Further quotes.

'The story of one of the most important literary discoveries of recent times, The Truth Will Out reveals the identity of the secretive man who wrote the greatest works in English Literature.'

'Brenda James's truly incredible discovery has, at a stroke, solved comprehensively and categorically all the mysteries and puzzles surrounding the world's greatest literary genius.'

You can access the media pack on this site.

http://www.pearsoned.co.uk/bookshop/minds/truthwillout/TheTruthWillOut_MediaPack.pdf

Bill tells me that the evidence is "cast-iron". We shall see. On the other hand, the Tay Bridge was built with cast iron, and look what happened to that.

johnmr

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#29111 - 09/27/05 10:37 AM Re: The Truth Will Out [Re: johnmr]
Delahoyde Offline
veteran

Registered: 03/21/02
Posts: 760
Loc: Washington State
It's proposing Southampton, right?

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#29112 - 09/27/05 10:48 AM Re: The Truth Will Out [Re: johnmr]
Mouse Offline
Grand Master

Registered: 09/08/01
Posts: 5906
Loc: Toronto, Ontario
John,

One of your main pieces of evidence seems to be that your candidate, as a member of the Virginia Company, would have had access to the Strachey letter.

First, there is no evidence whatsoever that the "letter" ever went to the Virginia Company, or was in fact written at all in the fall of 1610.

Second, Roger Stritmatter and I have shown the gross problems with the Strachey letter itself. It is contaminated as a possible source for Shakespeare as it copies both from earlier sources that Shakespeare would have had access to, and later sources that place it after Gates' ship sailed in July of 1610.

Third, following Malim's discovery of a play called The Spanish Maze, Roger and I will show in Ashland this week, I hope to everyone's satisfaction, that Tempest was written by 1605, and perhaps by 1602.

If we remove the Strachey letter as a piece of the puzzle, what really strong evidence does your candidate still have going for him?

Regards,
Lynne

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#29113 - 09/27/05 11:02 AM Re: The Truth Will Out [Re: Mouse]
Calends Offline
curious

Registered: 03/12/05
Posts: 128
Loc: Atlanta GA
The cover pic clearly isn't Southhampton.

It would seem that the combination of the new evidence (the tower notebook?) and a never-before considered candidate could add up to considerable book sales.

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#29114 - 09/27/05 11:28 AM Re: The Truth Will Out [Re: johnmr]
neufer Offline
Grand Master

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 2270
Loc: Maryland, P.G.
Neville Chamberlain's Men?

(What the Henry Neville is going on?)
_________________________
Art

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#29115 - 09/27/05 11:50 AM Re: The Truth Will Out [Re: neufer]
Calends Offline
curious

Registered: 03/12/05
Posts: 128
Loc: Atlanta GA
Good work, Art.

He would appear to be their candidate.

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#29116 - 09/27/05 04:24 PM Re: The Truth Will Out [Re: Calends]
neufer Offline
Grand Master

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 2270
Loc: Maryland, P.G.
Quote:

Calends: Good work, Art.
.
He would appear to be their candidate.




I decided to give myself five minutes to find the solution,
and if it didn't work out, I would forget the whole thing.
_________________________
Art

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#29117 - 09/27/05 04:49 PM the IRONy of Shake-speare / the "Bard of the Tay" [Re: johnmr]
neufer Offline
Grand Master

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 2270
Loc: Maryland, P.G.
Quote:

http://www.pearsoned.co.uk/bookshop/minds/truthwillout/TheTruthWillOut_MediaPack.pdf
.
johnmr: Bill tells me that the evidence is "cast-iron". We shall see.



<<Sir Henry Neville for a time, carried on the business
of an IRON-founder in Sussex. Sir Thomas Leighton &
Sir Henry Neville had obtained patents from the queen,
which enabled them to send their ORDNANCE abroad.>>

Quote:

johnmr: On the other hand, the Tay Bridge was built with cast iron, and look what happened to that.



The Tay job was Bouch'd!

-------------------------------------------------------------
The Taming of the Shrew Act 2, Scene 1

HORTENSIO: IRON may hold with her, but nEVER lutes.
-----------------------------------------------------

Bouch not only lost his Tay job but also "the FORTH".

-------------------------------------------------------------
King Henry VI, Part i Act 1, Scene 2

JOAN LA PUCELLE: Out of a great deal of old IRON I chose FORTH.
-------------------------------------------------------------
King John Act 2, Scene 1

KING JOHN: The cannons have their bowels full of wrath,
And ready mounted are they to spit FORTH
Their IRON indignation 'gainst your walls:
------------------------------------------------------------
King Henry IV, Part i Act 2, Scene 3

LADY PERCY: In thy faint slumbers I by thee have watch'd,
And heard thee murmur tales of IRON wars;
-----------------------------------------------------------
King Richard III Act 4, Scene 2

KING RICHARD III: I will conVERse with IRON-witted fools
-----------------------------------------------------
King Henry IV, Part ii Act 1, Scene 1

NORTHUMBERLAND: A scaly gauntlet now with joints of STEEL
Must GLOVE this hand: and hence, thou sickly quoif!
Thou art a guard too wanton for the head
Which princes, flesh'd with conquest, aim to hit.
Now bind my brows with IRON; and approach
The ragged'st hour that time and spite dare bring
To frown upon the enraged Northumberland!

Act 4, Scene 2

LANCASTER: My Lord of York, it better show'd with you
When that your flock, assembled by the bell,
Encircled you to hear with rEVERence
Your exposition on the holy text
Than now to see you here an IRON man,
Cheering a rout of rebels with your drum,
Turning the word to sword and life to death.
-----------------------------------------------------
King Henry VI, Part iii Act 2, Scene 2

RICHARD: IRON of Naples hid with English gilt,
Whose father bears the title of a king,--
As if a channel should be call'd the sea,--
Shamest thou not, knowing whence thou Art extraught,
To let thy tongue detect thy base-born HEART?

Act 5, Scene 1

GLOUCESTER: Come, Warwick, take the time; kneel down,
kneel down: Nay, when? strike now, or else the IRON cools.
-----------------------------------------------------
King John Act 4, Scene 1

ARTHUR Ah, none but in this IRON age would do it!
The IRON of itself, though heat red-hot,
Approaching near these eyes, would drink my tears
And quench his fiery indignation
Even in the matter of mine innocence;
Nay, after that, consume away in rust
But for containing fire to harm mine eye.
Are you more stubborn-hard than hammer'd IRON?

Act 4, Scene 2

HUBERT: And when they talk of [Arthur], they SHAKE their heads
And whisper one another in the ear;
And he that speaks doth gripe the hearer's wrist,
Whilst he that hears makes fearful action,
With wrinkled brows, with nods, with rolling eyes.
I saw a smith stand with his hammer, thus,
The whilst his IRON did on the anvil cool,
With open mouth swallowing a tailor's news;
Who, with his shears and measure in his hand,
Standing on slippers, which his nimble haste
Had falsely thrust upon contrary feet,
Told of a many thousand warlike French
That were embattailed and rank'd in Kent:
Another lean unwash'd artificer
Cuts off his tale and talks of Arthur's death.
_________________________
Art

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#29118 - 09/27/05 06:19 PM Re: The Truth Will Out [Re: Mouse]
neufer Offline
Grand Master

Registered: 03/18/03
Posts: 2270
Loc: Maryland, P.G.
Quote:

Lynne wrote: John, One of your main pieces of evidence seems to be that your candidate, as a member of the Virginia Company, would have had access to the Strachey letter...If we remove the Strachey letter as a piece of the puzzle, what really strong evidence does your candidate still have going for him?



Oh, Lynne, Lynne, Lynne.

Henry Neville isn't John's candidate.

Henry Neville isn't even the candidate of John's good friend Prof. "Bill" D. Rubinstein.
(Poor Brenda James...who is apparently even more naive than Lynne. )

Henry Neville is a straw man candidate intended (by Strat's like jmr & Prof. "Bill") only to further muddy the waters.
Heaven knows how many other straw man candidates the Strats will put out there before this is all over.

Now when, say, Mark Anderson goes for a radio interview prepared to the teeth to take on any Strat he'll be forced to contend with the likes of Brenda James and the mysterious Henry Neville. The general public (who have the attention span of a turnip and don't even know who Spenser was) will be thoroughly confused and the Strats can just sit back a chortle.
_________________________
Art

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#29119 - 09/27/05 07:24 PM Re: The Truth Will Out [Re: johnmr]
kenkap Offline
Grand Master

Registered: 09/21/01
Posts: 2748
So who was in the tower and is on the manuscript?
Should be easy.

Ken

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#29120 - 09/27/05 08:59 PM Re: The Truth Will Out [Re: Mouse]
Detobel Offline
veteran

Registered: 08/23/04
Posts: 787
Quote:

John,

One of your main pieces of evidence seems to be that your candidate, as a member of the Virginia Company, would have had access to the Strachey letter.

First, there is no evidence whatsoever that the "letter" ever went to the Virginia Company, or was in fact written at all in the fall of 1610.

Second, Roger Stritmatter and I have shown the gross problems with the Strachey letter itself. It is contaminated as a possible source for Shakespeare as it copies both from earlier sources that Shakespeare would have had access to, and later sources that place it after Gates' ship sailed in July of 1610.

Third, following Malim's discovery of a play called The Spanish Maze, Roger and I will show in Ashland this week, I hope to everyone's satisfaction, that Tempest was written by 1605, and perhaps by 1602.

If we remove the Strachey letter as a piece of the puzzle, what really strong evidence does your candidate still have going for him?

Regards,
Lynne




Lynne,

You have to agree that Sir Henry Neville is a good candidate from the viewpoint of the orthodox chronology, a little less than previously (old DNB: 1564-1615, new DNB 1561/2-1615), but still good, very good.

Neither can you deny that his choice of William Shakespeare of Stratford was a strategical choice which was good, very good.

An Euclidian choice, really. One way to solve triangle problems in Euclidian geometry is simply to construct the triangle which is asked for and then to see how you can retro-proceed from the solution to the givings in order to proceed from the givings to the solution.

So, here we have: the orthodox chronology is correct. Find a man who fits this chronology.

We can then go the other way.

Neville selects Shakespeare as a front. He is born about the same time as Neville himself. Good choice, very good choice. To begin with. How does it end? Not so well. Shakespeare dies about the same time as Neville. Unrealistic? Not at all. Once Neville dead, Shakespeare had to be deaded, killed that is. Deaded by whom? By one of the deadicatees of the First Folio of course. By the earl of Pembroke, who had just adhered, just in time, to the office of Lord Chamberlain. And if not by the earl of Pembroke, then by the duke of Providence.

Robert

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#29121 - 09/28/05 06:40 AM Re: The Truth Will Out [Re: Detobel]
RJGrumman Offline
Grand Master

Registered: 01/16/04
Posts: 4621
Loc: Port Charlotte FL
You guys sure put a lot on those First Folio dedicatees.

The problems with Neville as a candidate are, obviously, that (1) there's no hard evidence that he was Shakespeare, and (2) there's no rational reason to believe that Shakespeare was not Shakespeare. Other than that, he seems as good a candidate as anyone else.

--Bob G.

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